Presidential Dollars?

flaminio · March 8, 2004 11:46PM

Originally posted on RCC, linked here for comment.

Dollar coins might get presidential treatment

Here's the first of the proposed presidential dollar series:

Note also that the proposal calls for a $10 commem for each of the First Ladies.

Whaddya think?

LanLord · March 8, 2004 11:49PM

Sure, why not, another set of coins with dead people on them.

Dam, when will they get it through their thick skulls that only Miss Liberty and similar such representations of freedom should be on coins, no more dead people.

FC57Coins · March 8, 2004 11:49PM

Great - just when we're starting to make some strides to get away from dead presidents on coins, someone gets the bright idea to put them ALL on there? Sheeesh!

Bikingnut · March 8, 2004 11:54PM

I like the idea, but part of the thinking is very flawed.

The coins could become popular collectors items, like the quarters, and might also encourage people to replace paper dollars with coins.

I agree they will probably be popular with collectors, but like every other dollar coin they will not be accepted as circulating coinage unless the dollar bill is removed from circulation.

meos1 · March 8, 2004 11:59PM

Criminy! A 10 dollar commem for the first ladies??? WTF? There are more worthy depictions on commems and 10 dollars, a fiver would be plenty!

Gimme a break, where is John Stosle when you need him!

Dan

SarasotaFrank · March 9, 2004 12:03AM

i admit I like the sample, however, why the statue of liberty and george washington?

Abraham Lincoln and WWII?

James Buchanan and the Louisiana Purchase?

why not make front and back relevant to each other??

aRabidChipmunk · March 9, 2004 12:15AM

<< i admit I like the sample, however, why the statue of liberty and george washington?
...
why not make front and back relevant to each other?? >>

Because people are lazy. This way, they only have to do design work once for the side with Liberty.

They then have no controversy over what images will appear with each president. Just put a bust of the dead president on one side, the Statue of Liberty on the other...easier to do.

PhillyJoe · March 9, 2004 12:27AM

I was fine with it until I saw that Grover Cleveland gets two coins. I guess "In God We Trust" gets revamped, also? Fugettaboutit.

Joe

Dennis88 · March 9, 2004 12:28AM

they are nice as the sacs.....

morganbarber · March 9, 2004 12:52AM

I agree that collectors would like them, but only a little bit. If they are the same terrible alloy as the Sac., they will all look like crud in a year or two.

CoinHusker · March 9, 2004 1:30AM

As long as the $1 bill remains in circulation it doesn't matter who is on the $1 coin, what size it is, or what i's made of it won't get used.

With that being said, Why not put the reverse (the statue of liberty design) on the Obverse and a nice eagle or something on the reverse?

Ok, ok it's not original but isn't that what the mint likes?

CoinHusker · March 9, 2004 7:51AM

Can't imaging no one else has replied to this thread since my reply this morning. So I'll give it a bump for the night crowd.

After thinking on it, why not put the presidential seal on the reverse instead of the statue of liberty?

EvilMCT · March 9, 2004 8:46AM

Sounds like a good idea. Put the prez's on the dollar coin and replace all of the other denominations obverses (if only). Maybe a $50 coin for the president's pet(s) as well. Either way, I will not read another thread discussing the greatness/failures of FDR.

Ken

coinkat · March 9, 2004 10:34AM

All the Presidents? How about Vice Presidents? Then we can do Speakers of the House and perhaps we can work our way to Secretary of Commerce...Think of the fun

anoldgoat · March 10, 2004 2:31AM

As long as polititians decide what goes on our coins we are going to have polititians on our coins.

baccaruda · March 10, 2004 2:38AM

I like the idea, but PLEASE tell me they're not going to cover them with the pretend gold color again.

I WANT SILVER CONTENT - even if it's like 10%. I know I'm not going to get it.

meos1 · March 10, 2004 2:43AM

How about famous traitors...Heres an even better one.. The FBIs ten most wanted!!!!

Dan

aRabidChipmunk · March 10, 2004 2:45AM

You won't get silver on the dollar again as long as it retains its current size. Too close to the size of a quarter.

So, either current size and gold or new size and can change it back to silver.

ms70 · March 10, 2004 2:45AM

Is it possible to get the ANA to lobby for what collectors want?

baccaruda · March 10, 2004 2:54AM

Maybe if we put pictures of the "reality show" people on the coins, the American public will accept them...

mgoodm3 · March 10, 2004 2:56AM

They should do playing cards on coins, then you could have coin poker, kinda like those tiny vending machine coffee cups. Then PCGS could do five coin holders for hand. Eg: a PF69 DCAM Royal Flush. You couls have registries. It would be great.

ms70 · March 10, 2004 3:08AM

I have an idea. Bear with me because it's really crazy, over the edge & shocking, but..... How about a great artistic rendition
of Liberty & leaving it on the coin for many years! I know, I know, I'm out of line here. I think that having all of our 21st century
coinage display multiple designs every year is stupid & more about marketing than art & representation of our country.

We have:

The Lincoln Cent- Upcoming anniversary design ideas in the works. Who knows how they'll screw that up.
The Louisiana Purchase Nickels- 2 designs per year (for 2 years I believe?) then back to a permanent Jefferson/Monticello.
The Dime- The idea of Reagan on the dime- Seems to have died down but that leaves the dime open to some other political stunt.
The State Quarters- 5 designs per year. A nice program to get new YN's & others interested in coinage but should have an end in sight.
Now the Dollar- Do it right, do it artistically & not politically, or leave it alone.

Just my opinions

DBSTrader2 · March 10, 2004 11:36AM

I know the vending machine industry would be up in arms, but how about a uniquely-shaped dollar coin, or a bi-metal similar to Canada's Twoonie?

On a side note, although the thought of 50 varieties of a dollar coin isn't all that attractive to me, I DO like the design above - - a nicer picture of George!! Perhaps if their idea dies down, that coin can be resized and become the post-50-state revised Quarter design, since it already has Washington on it! Might be easier for people to swallow!

JoseRZ · March 10, 2004 11:41AM

If I understand this right, this would get Regan on the dollar coin Which will make some people mad. But Clinton will get on the dollar coin which will make some people mad. So all in all every one is happy.

baccaruda · March 10, 2004 12:15PM

Not if they're alive if won't get them on the dollar - it's against the law.

JoseRZ · March 10, 2004 12:20PM

I was going by the coinworld.com Artical which said "The legislation is less clear whether a living ex-president could be depicted." Also thier proposal at a glace said "Would be issued at the rate of four presidents a year, in order of service, until all but a sitting president have been honored." Since this news just came out we will get a better idea how long the program will last as time goes by.

Conder101 · March 10, 2004 2:55PM

<< Not if they're alive if won't get them on the dollar - it's against the law. >>

No it isn't. The law forbids depicting a living person of the paper money not the coins.

sumnom · March 10, 2004 4:37PM

Presidential coins - B O R I N G

Russ · March 11, 2004 1:22AM

<< Not if they're alive if won't get them on the dollar - it's against the law. >>

I'm pretty sure she's still kicking.

Russ, NCNE

flaminio · March 11, 2004 1:44AM

<<

I'm pretty sure she's still kicking. >>

Ugh, are you sure? That picture looks fairly inconclusive...

baccaruda · March 11, 2004 1:48AM

I thought it was a law that no living person would be depicted on circulating coinage. Just currency eh?

And Russ, yes, that Shriver's a poor example. As flaminio pointed out, your statement is inconclusive based on that picture.

flaminio · March 11, 2004 1:48AM

Here's the text of the proposed legislation. IMHO, it's a nightmare for modern coin collectors:

HR 3916 IH

108th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. R. 3916
To improve circulation of the $1 coin, create a new bullion coin, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 9, 2004
Mr. CASTLE (for himself and Mrs. MALONEY) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL
To improve circulation of the $1 coin, create a new bullion coin, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2004'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

The Congress finds as follows:

(1) There are sectors of the United States economy, including public transportation, parking meters, vending machines and low-dollar value transactions, in which the use of a $1 coin is both useful and desirable for keeping costs and prices down.

(2) For a variety of reasons, the new $1 coin introduced in 2000 has not been widely sought-after by the public, leading to higher costs for merchants and thus higher prices for consumers.

(3) The success of the 50-State circulating commemorative quarter program shows that a rotating design on a United States circulating coin radically increases demand for the coin, rapidly pulling it through the economy.

(4) The 50-State circulating commemorative quarter program also has been an educational tool, teaching both Americans and visitors something about each State for which a quarter has been issued.

(5) A national survey and study by the General Accounting Office has indicated that many Americans who do not seek, or who reject, the new $1 coin for use in commerce would actively seek the coin if an attractive, educational rotating design were to be struck on the coin.

(6) The President is the leader of our tripartite government and the President's spouse has often set the social tone for the White House while spearheading and highlighting important issues for the country.

(7) Many people cannot name all of the Presidents, and fewer can name the spouses, nor can many people accurately place the President in the proper time period of American history.

(8) First Spouses have not generally been recognized on American coinage.

(9) Sacagewea, as currently represented on the new $1 coin, is an important symbol of American history.

(10) In order to revitalize the design of United States coinage and return circulating coinage to its position as not only a necessary means of exchange in commerce but as representation of aesthetic beauty, it is appropriate to move many of the mottos and emblems, the inscription of the year, and the so-called `mint marks' that currently appear on the 2 faces of each circulating coin to the edge of the coin, which would allow larger and more dramatic artwork on the coins reminiscent of the so-called `Golden Age of Coinage' in the United States, at the beginning of the Twentieth Century, initiated by President Theodore Roosevelt, with the assistance of noted sculptors and medallic artists James Earle Fraser and Augustus St. Gaudens.

(11) Placing inscriptions on the edge of coins, known as edge-incusing, is a hallmark of modern coinage and is common in large-volume production of coinage elsewhere in the world, such as the 2,700,000,000 2-Euro coins in circulation and coins of the People's Republic of China, but it has not been done on a large scale in United States coinage in recent years.

(12) Bullion coins are a valuable tool for the investor and, in some cases, an important aspect of the coin-collector field.

(13) Although the Congress has authorized the Secretary of the Treasury to issue gold coins with a purity of .9999 percent, the Secretary has not done so.

(14) By commencing the issuance of the presidential $1 coins in 2006, coins issued in uncirculated or proof qualities that commemorate the presidency of Thomas Jefferson may be sold in sets with the coins of similar qualities that are issued in 2006 and commemorate the Lewis and Clark expedition, together with $1 coins that bear the image of Sacagewea and are struck for numismatic purposes under section 5112(n)(1)(B) of title 31, United States Code (as amended by section 3 of this Act).

SEC. 3. PRESIDENTIAL $1 COIN PROGRAM.

Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (m) the following new subsection:

`(n) Redesign and Issuance of Circulating $1 Coins Honoring Each of the Presidents of the United States-

`(1) REDESIGN BEGINNING IN 2006-

`(A) In general- Notwithstanding subsection (d), $1 coins issued during the appropriate period beginning January 1, 2006, shall have designs on the obverse and reverse sides selected in accordance with this subsection which are emblematic of the Presidents of the United States.

`(B) Transition provision- Notwithstanding subparagraph (A), the Secretary may continue to mint and issue $1 coins in 2006 which bear the design in effect before the redesign required under this subsection, as required for numismatic purposes and to ensure a smooth transition into the presidential coin program under this subsection.

`(2) Design requirements- The $1 coins issued in accordance with paragraph (1)(A) shall meet the following design requirements:

`(A) Coin reverse- The reverse of the coin shall bear--

`(i) a likeness of the Statue of Liberty extending to the rim of the coin and large enough to provide a dramatic representation of Liberty while not being large enough to create the impression of a `2-headed' coin;

`(ii) an inscription, using Arabic numerals, of the value of the coin; and

`(iii) an inscription of the `United States of America'.

`(B) Coin obverse- The obverse of the coin shall contain the name and likeness of a President of the United States along with basic information about the President, including the dates of the term of office of such President and a number indicating the order of the term of service in which the President served.

`(C) Edge-incused inscriptions- So that the images on the obverse and reverse of each coin may stretch completely to the rim of the coin for dramatic effect similar to the coin designs of St. Gaudens and James Earle Fraser, the inscription of the year of issuance of the coin and the inscriptions required under subsection (d)(1), other than the designation of the value of the coin or the inscriptions referred to in subparagraphs (A)(iii) and (D), shall be edge-incused into the coin.

`(D) Inscriptions of `liberty'- Notwithstanding the 2d sentence of subsection (d)(1), because the use of the Statue of Liberty on the reverse of the coins issued under this subsection adequately conveys the concept of Liberty, an inscription of `Liberty' shall not appear on either face of such coins or the edge of the coins.

`(E) Prohibition on inclusion of sitting president in series- No coin issued under this subsection may bear the image of a President who has not completed such President's term of service.

`(3) Issuance of coins commemorating presidents-

`(A) Order of issuance- The coins issued under this subsection commemorating Presidents of the United States shall be issued in the order of the term of service of each President, beginning with President George Washington.

`(B) Treatment of term of service-

`(i) In general- Subject to clause (ii), only 1 coin design shall be issued per order of service for any President, no matter how many consecutive terms of office the President served.

`(ii) Nonconsecutive terms- If a President has served during 2 or more nonconsecutive terms of service, a coin shall be issued under this subsection for each such nonconsecutive term of service.

`(4) ISSUANCE OF COINS COMMEMORATING 4 PRESIDENTS DURING EACH YEAR OF THE PERIOD-

`(A) In general- The designs for the $1 coins issued during each year of the period referred to in paragraph (1) shall be emblematic of 4 Presidents selected in the order in which they served as President until each President has been so honored.

`(B) NUMBER OF EACH OF 4 COIN DESIGNS IN EACH YEAR- Of the $1 coins issued during each year of the period referred to in paragraph (1), the Secretary of the Treasury shall prescribe, on the basis of such factors as the Secretary determines to be appropriate, the number of $1 coins which shall be issued with each of the 4 designs selected for such year.

`(5) Selection of design- Each of the designs required under this subsection for $1 coins shall be--

`(A) selected by the Secretary after consultation with the Commission of Fine Arts; and

`(B) reviewed by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.

`(6) Treatment as numismatic items- For purposes of sections 5134 and 5136, all coins minted under this subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.

`(7) Issuance- The Secretary may mint and issue such number of $1 coins of each design selected under paragraph (5) in uncirculated and proof qualities as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.

`(8) Reversion to preceding design- Upon the completion of the series of designs required by this subsection, the design of the $1 coin shall revert to the design in use prior to the issuance of coins in accordance with this subsection.'.

SEC. 4. FIRST SPOUSE BULLION COIN PROGRAM.

Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (n) (as added by section 3 of this Act) the following new subsection:

`(o) First Spouse Bullion Coin Program-

`(1) In general- During the same period in which the $1 coins are issued under subsection (n) which are emblematic of the Presidents of the United States, the Secretary of the Treasury shall issue bullion coins under this subsection that are emblematic of the spouse of each such President.

`(2) Specifications- The coins issued under this subsection shall--

`(A) have the same diameter as the $1 coins described in subsection (n);

`(B) be of an appropriate weight and thickness; and

`(C) contain .9999 percent pure gold.

`(3) Design requirements-

`(A) Coin obverse- The obverse of each coin issued under this subsection shall contain the name and likeness of a First Spouse, an inscription of the years of service and a number indicating the order in which his or her spouse served as President.

`(B) Coin reverse- The reverse of each coin issued under this subsection shall bear--

`(i) images emblematic of the life and work of the First Spouse whose image is borne on the obverse; and

`(ii) an inscription of the `United States of America'.

`(C) Designated denomination- Each coin issued under this subsection shall bear, on the reverse, an inscription of the designated denomination of the coin, using Arabic numerals, which shall be $10.

`(D) Design in case of no first spouse- In the case of any President who served without a spouse--

`(i) the image on the obverse of the bullion coin corresponding to the $1 coin relating to such President shall be an image of the concept of `Liberty'--

`(I) as represented on a United States coin issued during the term of such President; or

`(II) in the case of President Chester Alan Arthur, incorporating the name and likeness of Alice Paul, a leading strategist in the suffrage movement, who was instrumental in gaining women the right to vote upon the adoption of the 19th amendment and thus participate in the election of future Presidents, and who was born on January 11, 1885, during the term of President Arthur; and

`(ii) the reverse of such bullion coin shall be of a design representative of themes of such President, except that in the case of the bullion coin referred to in clause (i)(II) the reverse of such coin shall be representative of the sufferage movement.

`(E) Design and coin for each spouse- A coin shall be designed and issued under this section for each person who was the spouse of a President during any portion of a term of office of such President.

`(F) Edge-incused inscriptions- So that the images on the obverse and reverse of each coin may stretch completely to the rim of the coin for dramatic effect, the inscription of the year of issuance of the coin and the inscriptions required under subsection (d)(1), other than the designation of the value of the coin, shall be edge-incused into the coin.

`(4) Selection of design- Each of the designs required under this subsection for $1 coins shall be--

`(A) selected by the Secretary after consultation with the Commission of Fine Arts; and

`(B) reviewed by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.

`(5) Sale of bullion coins- Each bullion coin issued under this subsection shall be sold for an amount the Secretary of the Treasury determines to be appropriate that is equal to or greater than the sum of--

`(A) the face value of the coins; and

`(B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping).

`(6) Issuance of coins commemorating first spouses-

`(A) In general- The bullion coins issued under this section with respect to any spouse of a President shall be issued on the same schedule as the $1 coin issued under subsection (n) with respect to such President.

`(B) Termination of program- No bullion coin may be issued under this section after the design on the $1 coin reverts, in accordance with subsection (n)(8), to the design of the $1 coin preceding the program the issuance of coins under subsection (n).

`(7) Quality of coins- The bullion coins shall be issued in both proof and standard versions and may be sold in sets with the $1 coins issued under subsection (n) or in such other sets as the Secretary of the Treasury sees appropriate, as well as separately.'.

SEC. 5. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS.

It is the sense of the Congress that--

(1) the American tradition of not issuing a coin with the image of a living person has served the country well and deserves to be continued as a general practice;

(2) the full circulation potential and cost-savings benefit projections for the presidential $1 coin program are not likely to be achieved unless barriers to the circulation of such coins are removed; and

(3) in connection with the introduction of the $1 coins under the presidential $1 coin program--

(A) the coins should not be introduced with an expensive taxpayer-funded public relations campaign, including the use of the taxpayer-funded United States Mint Public Enterprise Fund; and

(B) the Director of the United States Mint, a bureau in the Department of the Treasury, should--

(i) work with consumer groups, media outlets, and schools to ensure an adequate amount of news coverage about the start of the coin program so consumers will know of the availability of the coins; and

(ii) work closely with merchants who will use the coins, vending machine and other coin acceptor manufacturers, vending machine operators, transit officials, and municipal parking officials, as well as with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the various banking and business associations, to ensure that--

(I) adequate numbers of vending machines and coin accepting equipment will accept the coin, and are labeled as such;

(II) cash register drawers are ready to accept the coins; and

(III) the contractors who handle recirculation of coins for the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System have machinery available to deliver and recycle the coins in packaging that is useful to businesses, including rolled coins.
END

baccaruda · March 11, 2004 1:50AM

I'm also not sure that's a person. It looks like a worn out catcher's mitt.

edsondl · March 11, 2004 2:39AM

<< `(F) Edge-incused inscriptions- So that the images on the obverse and reverse of each coin may stretch completely to the rim of the coin for dramatic effect, the inscription of the year of issuance of the coin and the inscriptions required under subsection (d)(1), other than the designation of the value of the coin, shall be edge-incused into the coin >>

A return to edge lettering will definately make it easier for blind people to use. I wonder if PCGS could design a new holder to show the edge lettering?

Having the date on the edge would make sets in albums look more like Franklin Mint coins though.

itsnotjustme · August 29, 2006 6:30AM

Time to bring up this old heap from the bottom.

ABC123 · August 29, 2006 7:30AM

What's next after the Presidential Dollars & First Ladies ; The 50 State Flowers Coin Program !!!

LanLord · August 29, 2006 8:06AM

<< Originally posted on RCC, linked here for comment. Dollar coins might get presidential treatment Here's the first of the proposed presidential dollar series:

Note also that the proposal calls for a $10 commem for each of the First Ladies. Whaddya think? >>

This coin looks like the weird metal things that gas stations used to hand out for a fillup back in the 60s. I remember my parents trying to fill some album with all the presidents and they looked just like that!

rgl1345 · August 29, 2006 8:11AM

<< 

<< Not if they're alive if won't get them on the dollar - it's against the law. >>

I'm pretty sure she's still kicking.

Russ, NCNE >>

sorry, looks like she been dead for 3 years. Maybe the booze embalmed her well

notwilight · August 29, 2006 8:13AM

<< As long as polititians decide what goes on our coins we are going to have polititians on our coins.

>>

Good point. I want physicists on my coins!!!!

ksteelheader · August 29, 2006 8:22AM

<< Sure, why not, another set of coins with dead people on them.

Dam, when will they get it through their thick skulls that only Miss Liberty and similar such representations of freedom should be on coins, no more dead people. >>

Miss Liberty has been dead for over 230 years now.

Presidential Dollars?

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